Ep. 5 - Highschool Sweethearts to High-Conflict Divorce

A whisper at 4:30 a.m., a drive to the gym, and a truth that splits a life in two. Lauren takes us through the raw, human reality of discovering not one but two affairs, both with close friends, and the slow, steady climb toward a healthier future for herself and her kids. We start with young love and a faith-filled home, then move through IVF, adoption, and the first shock of betrayal. What follows is a masterclass in hard choices: how to attempt forgiveness, recognize red flags, and decide when a marriage has crossed the line from wounded to unsafe.

As the story deepens, we unpack the second discovery, the hidden messages, the canceled plans, the moment everything clicks, and the courage it takes to keep a promise to yourself. With a skilled therapist’s guidance, Lauren confronts narcissism, names patterns, and weighs two doors: stay and expect more of the same, or leave and reclaim agency. We dig into the unglamorous legal grind, discovery delays, business finances, and why a great attorney and a forensic CPA can protect your future when emotions run high. Along the way, she builds stability for her kids with therapy, consistent routines, and even a shared family dog to anchor transitions.

What truly transforms this story is how Lauren rebuilds from the inside out. Group fitness becomes medicine. Prayer becomes a compass. Boundaries become love in action. And when she starts dating again, she finds a partnership grounded in respect, curiosity, and mutual standards, a contrast that reframes the past without bitterness. If you’re navigating betrayal, divorce, or co-parenting, you’ll leave with practical tools and a deeper kind of hope: choose the path that teaches your kids what love should feel like, and take one honest step at a time.

If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help others find their own path from bitter to better.

Transcript

Reunion Nerves And Old Friends

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Better or Better. Real stories of the forest of the clouds. The podcast that gets for y'all got the best metal of the forest. And what it's got on the other side. You are not alone. Let's start someone off the story and see what resonates. Well, I'm here on location, right outside Austin, Texas, with a grade school friend. Yeah, I know. I feel like we're out of sleepover. This is the best. Kelly Kendall Warren. Yes. I mean you know this, but I moved from private school to public school in eighth grade, and it was like the scary thing. And which private school are you at? I was at Trinity. Trinity Literature.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

The scariest thing you'll ever do in your life. Oh, that's what I hear.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Going from from private school to public school. Yeah. But you guys were fun. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

What grade you were in seventh when you moved over? No, I was I was going into eighth grade. Going into eighth grade. Okay. All right. So yeah, middle school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Yeah, I know. Look at us. Look at us as well. Getting to see you at the reunion. I know. It was so fun. Did you not have the best time? I had so much fun. And then I pinged everybody who didn't go, and I'm like, why didn't you go? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

I know. I had nervousness about it. And you went by yourself, right? And I can not imagine because Katie and I went together. We got there in the pregnant lot, and I was like, we could just turn around right now. And nobody would know. It wouldn't be a big deal. And my husband was like, Y'all came for this. Y'all are y'all can do this. Let's go. I'll walk you in. And I'm so glad. And I tell all my clients, I'm like, go. It's so fun. It's awkward. You get nervous. But everybody feels that way. Yeah. And then it's just like old times.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

And exactly. Yeah. Everyone's just as awkward. Yeah. So yeah. Um that was fun. Well, before we get into it, can you go ahead and introduce

Meet Lauren: Family And Faith

SPEAKER_03 2:31

yourself?

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Yeah, so I'm Lauren and in between Austin and San Antonio. I have three of my own children, two stepchildren. Yeah, I kind of married originally my high school sweetheart. Um, and we'll get into it.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

And that that that we will talk about what happened. Okay. Yeah. I don't know much of your story. I know like maybe tip of the iceberg. I don't know much. So thank you for doing this and being vulnerable and sharing. I always ask people, why on earth would you go back and pick at the scab that has healed? Why why open up and share your story with others?

SPEAKER_04 3:17

You know, and we talked about we're both women of faith. I feel like when we go through these trials in life, God gets us through them, or you know, you you get through them, and if you don't share your experience, I feel like that's the blessing in all of it is that you then have a story to share with someone else because nothing is worse than going through something alone. When you send over ideas about what you want to talk about, it was like picking a scab, and I was like, oh my gosh, some of these you block out of your memory because it is so hurtful. But I guess just mainly to let people know that you aren't alone, feelings are normal, they're valid. And when somebody else can understand what you've been through, it is a game changer.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah, a hundred percent. When I meet people, even if they're strangers, but we somehow talk about our personal lives and they've gone through a divorce, like it takes a relationship to a whole new level. You don't have to say anything, you're just like, I got it.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

I I got you, girl.

SPEAKER_03 4:15

Yeah, I understand. Well, thank you. Yeah, the mission and purpose of the podcast is to help people feel like they're not alone and it sucks, but you will get through it, and there's two ways to get through it, yeah, you know, bitter or better. Yeah, so let's rewind. You married your high school sweetheart. Yep, you know, describe the relationship and then the marriage and the family dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

We met originally, I think I was 14 and he was 16, and then started dating. So he went to a different high school, was two years older than me. So we started dating my

Why Share Painful Stories

SPEAKER_04 4:55

junior year, his freshman year of college. And our families knew each other. We were in a small church in different locations, but our families knew each other through that. Started dating when we were 16. We got married. Um, I had been 20 for a month when we got married.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

I didn't even realize that you guys met in high school. Yeah, dated all throughout high school. That must be why I don't remember you dating any boys from high school.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Yeah, and I still lived it up in high school. I still felt like I had a it was kind of nice that he was at college because and he played basketball. So like he was busy in college, and I could be with my friends and do all that. But yeah, so we got married when I was I had been 20 for one month, and we had babies started having a family. Um, we we had gone through some miscarriages, IVF. So we went through it the first five years. Wow, and then um ended up doing IVF, having my daughter, and then got married in 2005, 2010. I had her, then we adopted, and I had and my little sons adopted. I didn't know that. So we did all of that to these are all very big things that could be enough in a marriage. IVF, adoption, all of those on their own. That's enough. That's more than a lot of people have to go through. Did IVF again, had my youngest son. I mean, just to break down, just to get into it, I guess. After we adopted our son, he was about six months old. My sister was living with us at the time. She had gone through a breakup actually and was like, I'm coming to Tex. She came here, fell in love with it. So she lived with us up in the room up front.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Okay, so you and he moved to Texas together.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

We did, yeah. We moved here right after I had my daughter. She was four months old when we moved here. You know, we went through the adoption, my sister moved here, had a had a new baby that was we had just adopted, trying to get into that groove, and he wasn't like the easiest baby, so that was really hard. I was having a lot of like um mom guilt because I felt like I mean, he was just kind of a hard baby, but I felt like it was me because I should have read more books or something on adoption. I just thought I want to be a mom and this will be, you know, and all just fit in naturally, but it was emotionally harder than what I thought it would be.

High School Sweethearts To Young Marriage

SPEAKER_04 7:22

So going through all of that, um, he was probably about six months old, and then my husband had his first affair. And kind of crazy story, I woke up in the middle of the night, or I I guess it was probably not the middle of the night, I felt like it. It was probably about four o'clock, four thirty in the morning, and he wasn't home. And he would get up and go to the gym every morning, and so I thought, well, he must have gone to the gym. And then I'm having all these thoughts, like, he is so dedicated. He gets up and he goes to the gym. I need to do that more. I need to find, you know, you have all these like woman guild, I guess. I don't even know that where you're just like, I should be working out, I should be doing this. Yeah, shoulds. Yes, and so I get up with my son, I make him a bottle, I'm rocking him in his chair, and I literally hear a voice in my head that's because then I'm thinking, well, what? It's so early. Wait, what time? Then I'm like coming into I'm more awake and I'm like, where is he? So I called him a couple times, didn't answer. Then I am rocking my son and I'm thinking, like, you know, feeding him his bottle, and I'm like, man, what in the world? And I hear a voice in my head say, Go to the why. And I'm like, that's crazy. I mean, by this time it'd probably been 30 minutes. I was like, that's crazy. And it was not my voice, it was a prompting. I'm like, that's crazy. So I, you know, I finish the bottle with my son, I get him back to bed, which is a process, and I hear again, go to the why now. And I'm like, oh my gosh, if he sees me going to the why, I am gonna look like a psycho. And I'd had no reason to think anything that I need to check up on him. No reason. Great guy, active in church. I've been with him I felt like my whole life. We had a new baby, no reason to think that. So then I started thinking, like, well, my sister's here, so my kids wouldn't be alone. Yeah, I could take her car, he wouldn't know. Yeah, like he wouldn't spot it. I live about two minutes from the interstate. I merge onto the interstate directly behind him, driving down the interstate, right behind my car. And I had a cardinal's a St. Louis Cardinals thing on my car. So I knew it was my car. Yeah. Because you don't see St. Louis Cardinals here in the middle of Texas. That's right. So I was like, oh my gosh, where is he coming from? Did he stop and get and then I'm trying to make sense why he's there. You stop and get a protein shake at the grocery store, but the grocery store probably wouldn't be open yet. Like, what in the world?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

You're trying to try to make it story together.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Yes. And then I'm like, where has he been? So I follow him to the Y. The parking lot is kind of two levels. So he gets off in the first level, walks in, and I park in the second level, and I called him, and by that time he answered his phone. And I said, Where are you? And he was like, Oh, sorry, um, I was at the Y. I'm sorry, Ms. Shakal, I was in the sauna. And I I said, Well, that's weird because I just saw you walk into the Y. And by that time, I'm turning around to go back home. And he is like, Well, I think we need to talk. Came clean, told me he had been seeing one of my friends who um she and her husband were supposed to be moving. Like I thought they had already moved, and turns out she had stayed

IVF, Adoption, And Early Strain

SPEAKER_04 10:45

back. Oh, yeah. So he tells me that. So it's a double whammy.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Him and my friend. Like we babysat each other's kids. She was at my birthday party, which I hadn't been that long ago. Um, close friends.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah, so not an acquaintance, like a close friend.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Yes. My ex-husband would pick up her husband from the airport because he was traveling, he had been traveling the last little bit for work.

unknown 11:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Yeah. Told me that, was very apologetic, was very like, I what have I done? What's wrong with me? Can you forgive me? All this. We got a therapist, we went to therapy, some stuff, you know, that needed to come out from kind of on his end came out from childhood and trauma and all this stuff. And so we did that, and for the next four years, I would like be like, please never do this to me again.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Yeah. Let's talk about what you felt in the moment when you realized he was having an affair.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

I think it's kind of like an out-of-body experience, honestly. It is like a gut punch. And that it was at her, you know, it was her. It was, I mean, that was a lot. Um you still love them, you know. So you're like, you are my person who I want to go to you for comfort right now because I'm devastated, but you're the person who devastated me.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

And then I don't know about you, but I then had feelings when I found out my ex was having an affair, or it was it was the affair that kind of broke us. If someone were to be like, would you go back? It would take me a while to answer that question. Because the the girl power in you wants to be like, F no. But then if you're like really honest, you're like, I might, because I still love this person, and so then there's like feelings of guilt and what's wrong with you, and come on, and like, and you took marriage vows, and I am someone who respects those marriage vows.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Yes, so for what is for better or for worse, what is like what is worse, you know? Um like is this worse isn't a flu. Yeah, especially when you have children involved. We had just adopted a baby, and he is sad, and so I told him, like, you are not your mistake. If this was a mistake, I will figure out how to forgive you. And it was not easy, and I never felt like he got the gravity of it, of what he did. So it was really hard for me. The next four years, it was hard to like come up off of like I still don't think you get this. We would I would be like, you don't get what the work I've had to put in to try to forgive you, and like you wanna complain about like the dishes weren't done or something. Added to this also, I was a stay-at-home mom. I had stopped working when our daughter was born. Ten years I had, you know, not worked. Fast forward four years, we put in the work, we were doing great, everything

The First Affair And Discovery

SPEAKER_04 13:50

seemed like it was moving into a new normal.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Can I ask you real quick?

SPEAKER_04 13:55

Yeah, how in the world were you able to forgive? Well, I realized first that I didn't know how to forgive. It was like a forgiveness that is like the deepest kind of betrayal hurt by multiple people who shouldn't hurt you. Friends, and and I am a good girlfriend. So, like that was hard. That there were friends out there that I let into my life that hurt my family.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

You know, Abby, honestly, I still struggle with forgiveness because it is hard, but it is required, and it is I know it is for you.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

It's for you, not the other person.

unknown 14:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

But I did realize then that forgiveness is not as easy as you think it's gonna be. She was probably easier to forgive because I didn't expect as much from her. He was harder to forgive because I expected a lot from him, and I gave a lot. I mean, it's that's a process. Sounds like it's like it's a it's decisions, everything. You have to choose, I guess. Yeah, for sure. Um, and I chose to just to move on. I didn't tell anybody it happened because I thought this is marriage and I will forgive you one time. But I told them, you ever do this again and I I will be done. That's it. Like this is a mistake, but more than once is a pattern of behavior. Yes. Well, let's fast forward four years. All of a sudden, he starts telling me that he's unhappy. Oh, that sounds familiar. We had my son, my youngest at that point, so that now we were on baby three. He was two, and I thought this was just we have little kids, it's crazy. Yeah, I'm not happy every day either, but like I still love you, and like we will get through the little kid stage because it's hard. And we were arguing more because he was unhappy. It I would be excited for him to come home because it's like, oh, another adult and my husband, and and he would come in. It was like a black cloud. Like, okay, clearly he was unhappy, but I would have done anything to change anything in me to make him happy. One night, I think he told me that he wanted to separate. I mean, we had started that whole conversation, and it still just seems like, okay, like we have been together so long. Like, it just did not seem real. At that point, we've been married 14 years or something like that. We'd been together since we were 16. Imagining life without him was like imagining no arm on my left side of my body. Yeah, yeah. It was around Super Bowl, and I got a text message. We were supposed to go to a Super Bowl party with some friends. One of our friends were hosting a Super Bowl party. We had started being in this volleyball at the rec center, like an adult volleyball thing, and he would get like frustrated. Like, I am not a volleyball player, five feet tall, and I've never played volleyball in my life, but he would get like frustrated where I'm like, this is supposed to be fun, and I'm not a volleyball player, and I'm just out here trying to do my best, you know. So weird stuff. Weird stuff.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yes, I didn't even know how to put my finger on it. Like, dude, chill. I'd like I've if I can share a component or story, like when we were kind of in the red light, green light, we went to some town in North Carolina, some like mountain town in North Carolina, and we had gone fly fishing earlier in the day, and it was like Saturday, so there was Saturday college football on, and we came back to a bar, and there was a group of four women at the bar sitting by themselves. I didn't think anything of it. Later on in our conversations, he was like, Well, you just don't, you don't like football. Like, you're not gonna go to a bar like those women and sit and watch football at a bar. And I'm like, No, I'm not. Because I got better things to do on a Saturday, and who cares? Like the little things that come up your legs.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Microaggressions, maybe, is kind of what I was feeling. And so we're going through this process of like, yeah, you are clearly unhappy, clearly. I don't know what I can do to like make this better. Also, he would get distant with texting. I would text him, I wouldn't automatically hear back from him. He wouldn't call me during the day. But I'm a pretty like confident person, and I don't really need constant

Trying To Forgive And Rebuild

SPEAKER_04 18:25

reassurance. So I think when he pulled away and got more distance, and I had three little kids, I just was like in my lane. Anyway, we're doing this volleyball thing, and we were on our way what one night to the volleyball for a game, and he's pretty much telling me, like, I'm done, and was so cold about it, like, I'm done being married, I'm gonna move out, all this, and was so cold that it was shocking to me. Literally, like I wasn't talking to the person that I'd known my whole life. And so he was mad that he was missing this volleyball game, and he was like, It's the one thing I look forward to today, and a volleyball game at the rec center, an adult volleyball game. I was like, Okay, like this is for real. At that moment, it became real. I yeah, like you shared, like for whatever reason, this is a real moment. All right, I hear you, I hear you now. Maybe a week later, we're bathing all of our kids, and he sets his phone down, and he's an Android user, so like I don't even know how to use that my phone. So he sets his phone down and he didn't close out of the screen, so I could just pick it up and somehow, don't know how, I see tech messages on the Facebook Messenger. You can have like private or like hidden, or I can't remember the name of the mark. I didn't even know Facebook had such a thing, but you can message somebody and it not pop up in your messages.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Oh, interesting. Like hidden. I didn't know that either. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

And so I know this was now I'm talking six years ago, so maybe not anymore, but I picked up his phone, and that's where he was in these Facebook hidden messages, and I clicked on it, and it was another friend of mine, who was on our volleyball team and whose house we were supposed to go to. Oh, so yeah, we're supposed to go to her house for Super Bowl. Well, in the midst of all this, she cancels her Super Bowl party, and I asked him, that was my first red flag. This is weird. She said, I'm gonna have to cancel having family problems. And I thought, hmm. And I said to him, Are her family problems and our family problems any bit related? And he was like, No, I don't know what's going on with them. I don't know. And I thought, okay, you swear, because I kept saying, Are you having an affair? I kept asking him because we have three kids, we have a family, you've done this before. You don't just get up and leave your family. Yeah, that is what you don't, you don't do that. No, I had asked him that, and uh then the volleyball thing happened, and then the Super Bowl, and then now here we are bathing our kids, and I see a hey you with a winky face emoji from my friend, and I lost my mind, and I uh was ready to like kill somebody. Yeah. Well, uh, it was traumatizing night for me, uh, for my kids, and um, that's when I was like, okay, I told you you do this to me again, and we are done. And I have three little kids, and I've been a stay-at-home mom for 10 years, and I have no idea. I don't have family in Texas. You have friends, but clearly some of your friends. Yeah. So then you're even guessing who your friends are. Yeah. So I mean, through the whole healing thing, I'm thinking, what is wrong with me? Yeah, like why do I keep making these friends? But I do think, looking back, if it hadn't ha I loved him so much, if it hadn't happened immediately the way it did the first time. God needed me to see him very black and white.

Unhappiness, Distance, And Microaggressions

SPEAKER_04 22:05

He he would always say the first girl, she was very manipulative. And I remember thinking, that's weird because she's not smart enough to be manipulative. Like I knew her, she was my friend, but I didn't think she was all that intelligent. And so I'm like, okay, maybe she is manipulative, but that she's not that smart to be manipulative. And then now this girl, going through the process of it, he would say the same things about her. She's manipulative. And I finally was like, no, I think you're manipulative.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Here's the common denominator.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

You are the common denominator. The first girl I was able to have a conversation with on the phone after I found out everything. Like I knew her husband, so I called her husband. I had to tell her husband, hey, I just found my husband at your house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

After that first experience. Second time, knew her husband also, because we were family friends. I was actually better friends with her. I worked with her, we worked at the gym together. So I was even closer to her. And when I called her husband, he had already known she had already moved out. She was in a hotel. Looking back at that time, it's you know it's blurry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

You then made the decision. Or how how did you come to the decision that I need to file and get saved?

SPEAKER_04 23:18

So it probably took about six months, and he moved out. I just couldn't envision my life or my family. I grew up in such a traditional home. Uh he and I, between the two of us, he's one of six, I'm one of four, no divorce in our family. Our parents are not divorced. I couldn't even envision life being divorced, being a single mom. I had stayed home for so long. I'm like, I don't even know what I want to be anymore. I'm a completely different person than when I was working before. Also, I've been at home to you, like I wouldn't even know how to go to a job interview. What do I say about myself? I'm mother of three. That it was my whole identity. So he had moved out, but we still were seeing each other a lot, and maybe making it where we had gone back to therapy, thinking we'll either be great co-parents or maybe we can work this out. So my parents had planned a trip to Europe for two weeks, and he was originally, you know, obviously gonna come. And in the midst of all this, he was not invited anymore. My dad was like, we're done with that. I was able to go on this trip. My parents are like, we want you to go. This is important to us. You need to be gone. You need this for you. So I went and I was away from home and away from him and on a different time zone. I only could talk to him if I was on Wi-Fi. And then by the time we'd get home from doing whatever we were doing, it was usually too late. So I really was just me with my parents, with my sister, with her husband, with my mom's best friend who knew me with my family in Europe. I was with people who knew me. I always felt like my ex-husband, he knew who he thought I was, but he did not know me. He would say things to me, and it's like, you don't even know who I am. And so being with people who knew who I was, separate, not being a mom, not being a wife, with a lot of other married people who'd been married for a long time, I thought I am not a terrible wife. I'm just like every other wife, because he really did make me feel like I I just wasn't that good of a wife. And so I was like, who my parents speak to me and know me as is who I am. I just had to find that again, I guess. I could see things so much more clearly, not being in his world of hot and cold and confusion, him telling me who I was instead of me understanding and knowing who I am. When I got back, I thought I need to get my own therapist. And he kept saying things to me when I would talk to him, like, you're acting weird. And I'm like, No, I'm not. It was his own insecurity

The Second Affair Revealed

SPEAKER_04 25:50

about maybe me coming to this realization and finally pulling away. Because at that point, I think he was maybe ready to work it out. You know, he'd had six months of being on his own, away from his kids. So I got my own therapist. She basically told me, I think you're married to a narcissist. Do you know what that is? And I thought, well, his brother told me on the onset of all this, I think he's a narcissist. And I was like, but I don't know, I don't know what that is. And I feel like it's a word people throw around. It's become more and more common.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Yeah. Now, whether it's because there's more and more outside, I don't know, but I I hear you. And this was several years ago, too.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

This was like six, yeah, way before TikTok. Yeah. Or whatever, you know. I said, I know, I mean, I've heard that term, but I feel like it's like people throw around, like, oh, I'm so OCD. And she's like, Well, from what you've told me, there are markers that we check, and she said, and obviously I've never met him, so I can't diagnose him. But two affairs that you know about, both with your friends, that's like next level hurt. And you can either stay with him and know that it'll probably happen again, and he's his narcissism will probably only get worse, it gets worse as they get older, and so you if you choose to stay with him, just know that's probably gonna be your future. Or you choose a life for yourself where you get some control back.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Yeah, that's like let's just take a moment. That is a tough decision. These fears that you've had of being on your own, a single mom of three kids, and all the insecurities and anxiety and nervousness that come with that, that's like behind door number one. Yeah. And then behind door number two is you're married to a narcissist. A narcissist says he's probably gonna cheat on you again. Yeah, and things are gonna get worse. Yeah, not a great No, it wasn't great. So, how did you make that decision?

SPEAKER_04 27:43

So I I wanna say I had a therapy session the morning of our anniversary, and he texted me, Why haven't you said happy anniversary yet? And that I was like, Well, why is it my job? Like, there was just a lack of accountability, and God put friends in my life at that time who had been through divorce. That was huge for me. I think I I learned more about narcissism, and I just was like, this is not what God intended for marriage, and I will never be happy again. I still worked with the second girl, so I would see her and it would give me full-on sweats. Um the minute that I chose, choosing was not in a minute, it was a process. But all of this combined, I was like, I've gotta be done. I gotta choose me, and I want to show my kids they were little, which was hard, but a blessing, what a marriage is supposed to be like, and I really don't want to show them a bad marriage is supposed to be like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Yeah, you're showing three little people again, that door number one, door number two. Yeah. Either show them, you know, what a good marriage looks like, um, which they're gonna go and have kids of their own. It's like a ripple effect.

SPEAKER_04 29:00

Yeah, I yeah, I did not want to show them a bad marriage.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

I I kind of after that trip, I was kind of like, okay, and then the therapy for just for me, I think I just was able to, I just could see clearly, and I had realized that I wasn't gonna make choices anymore where I didn't pray about and then move on. And for whatever reason at that time, that's what felt right. You had peace with that decision. Yeah, okay, yeah, it was a rocky boat, but it felt less rocky. I do know though that once I let that go, I was like, I don't want to be married anymore. Um, we went to a mutual therapy session, and uh I I told him, I am done now. And he was like, I can understand because I guess I've been in the place where I've been done with our marriage also. And in my head, I'm like, but I didn't let an affair clap my judgment. Right. I I was it wasn't someone waiting in the wings, so to speak. Wasn't someone waiting in the wings, yeah. Uh left there and I called my dad and he's like, Well, okay, that's good. I mean, he was just waiting for me to come around to that. I have a good dad, and he was like, You deserve way better

Choosing Divorce And Finding Clarity

SPEAKER_04 30:10

than this. When I would see her, the second girl at the gym and stuff, it was like, Oh, you're not my problem. Like, all of this, not my problem.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

So you made the choice. Again, it didn't come in a minute, it was definitely a process. What then did you have to do or prepare for the actual divorce process? Like, how did you position yourself with the divorce process?

SPEAKER_04 30:41

So I met with my attorney. We owned our own business, but my ex-husband and I. I wasn't even on a lot of the business stuff. I didn't have access to it. I mean, I couldn't go and see checking accounts, and he had business partners also. So she looking through some stuff was like, we need to get a discovery on his business. Stuff wasn't adding up where money was going. One of the first things he did was like took money out of our checking account and put it all that kind of nastiness that happens when it's final. Yeah. And you know that you can't do that when you're starting the divorce process. You can't take chunks of money out of checking accounts.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

No.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Um, and so from the time I filed till the time I finally got divorced was about two years. So he was going through this the discovery stuff, but he wasn't, what is it like, uh participating? Pulling ball.

unknown 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:35

Yeah. He wasn't doing his part of the discovery, which made the discovery take forever. He would never turn in the right paperwork. So, like, we went to a mediation or went to a day where we were gonna mediate, and she was like, We don't have enough stuff to even do it. He didn't bring anything, he wasn't responding to his lawyers, so his original lawyer quit, and there was like a hearing. I didn't even know you could quit a client, but basically, because he wasn't doing what the judge was ordering him to do, it was just difficult. Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Um if you lie or if you don't produce the documents, you make the process so much longer and harder than what it has to be. And more expensive, and more expensive. It's like the lawyer will ask for this, and when you don't produce it, they're like, no, really, yeah. We need yeah, yeah, yeah. Just just produce what you need to produce.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Yeah, let's just wrap it up. I can relate to you because same thing, it's like you created this whole mess, and now I want to move on with my life, and you are dragging it out. And so it was a lengthy divorce because he wasn't doing his part on it, and nothing is easy when you don't participate like an adult should. So I I would first suggest anyone get an attorney because you don't know what you don't know. They've seen it all, and so people who try to do it without an attorney, I'm always like, no, find someone who can represent you because you're about to hit your hardest days, and you need someone looking out for you.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

I think having a CPA also, and now your attorney will likely have a CPA that they recommend, but that also is a game changer for me. Yeah, because they're looking at the numbers. Your judgment is clouded. Some days it's about survival, and the CPA is the one objectively looking at numbers, making sure things line up.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

Yeah. Yeah, we had a forensic CPA look through his business and try to make sense of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

What what was life like for those two years as you were actually going to be?

SPEAKER_04 33:42

Well, I met my husband.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

And so that was hard to. I met him and I originally told him, like, I really like you, but I want to honor my marriage. I did not know that marriage would continue on for two more years through a divorce process. I originally told him, like, my husband had an affair, and I don't want to leave this marriage being able to say, you know, that I do anything but leave it the best way possible.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

So because the court still deems

Therapy, Narcissism, And Two Hard Doors

SPEAKER_03 34:15

you married up until your actual divorce date. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Yeah. But we started date. I mean, but yeah, we started dating.

unknown 34:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Two years is a long time.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

But you're worth it. I dream you. Yeah, you are worth it. I know you.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

I mean, I do feel like though, like I had mentioned earlier, just moving through prayer for me was really important and really thinking about my steps. And when I look back at all of it, how perfectly aligned me meeting my husband now was. And I really did not know how to date. I hadn't dated anyone since I was 16. And that's definitely different when you're an adult. Plus, with kids and all that. So my husband, he's the first person I dated after my divorce. So I just felt blessed. That was an easy process if it had to be in the midst of this difficult process over here.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Yeah, because there's so much ugness with the process that to have something positive and levity, it's a little bright light. Yes. If we can go back a little bit and you can pass on any question that I asked. I don't have kids, I know that sometimes uh kids are the reason people stay together. How did you approach that with your children? What values were important for you to maintain as it relates to your kids being impacted from the divorce?

SPEAKER_04 35:56

I immediately put them in therapy. And actually, it's kind of funny. Um, my son said, Mom, do you remember when we used to go visit your friend and we get Chick-fil-A? You pick us up from school, we go visit your friend and we'd get Chick-fil-A, and I was like, That was a therapist, but he didn't even know. I wanted them to be okay, and I like I said, I am not a child of divorce, so I do not understand where they're coming from. And so I immediately put them in therapy. But one thing that I would have liked to have seen happen, and it hasn't necessarily, but some but it is still important, is that that first family unit is still a family unit. We don't co-parent as well as I would like, and things aren't as united as I wish they could be. And just like that unit of family, with or without their dad in it with us, we were a group. Um, and and then just feeling like their feelings are valid and asking them also to be patient with me because I'm navigating this for the first time too. They were little, so I had a two-year-old at the time. That's hard. One thing we did do that I hope was helpful is our dog would go with the kids back and forth, and so like she was constant to them. Um, we do birthdays still together as best we can. So even for my husband now who has an ex-wife, I still want to respect that family unit. It it doesn't go away, it is still a unit, and it still very much feels like a unit. Family to me is the most important, and so I tried to maintain that as best I could. It sounds like maintaining as much consistency as possible was a guiding value throughout the process. Yeah, I did not really want their life to change more than it needed to because it was a pretty big change in itself.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

And that included staying in Texas.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Yeah. I originally thought I'm gonna have to go live with my parents, I don't have a job, how am I gonna do this? And and my parents too were like, move back, you know. But first of all, I wanted their dad in

Deciding To Leave And Telling Family

SPEAKER_04 38:00

their life, so I would never want to take them away from him. And I'm like, no, this is my life. I have friends here, I have my roots, I am here now.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah, I understand that.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

Yeah, divorce, it's a process. We know it's a two-year process, but it's more than like the actual you know, time that you're passing legal paperwork back and forth. Yes. What tools or strategies did you utilize to get through it?

SPEAKER_04 38:28

I think having the friends that I had that God kind of placed in my life right before my life completely flipped. Having friendship having those friendships were helpful. Having my family was helpful. Prayer is helpful to me, church was helpful. That's kind of where I leaned in more towards because that to me was my foundation. So I would say grasping to what you do know in the middle of what feels like chaos kind of helps keep your eye on the prize of your goals because I think you could get lost in what is my life? What is my purpose? What is my, you know, who am I if I'm not this? And this is who I thought I'd be. I think now that no one ever thinks they're the one that's gonna get a divorce, right? Yeah, and I never thought. I still can can't believe it sometimes. Like, I can't believe I went through that. So um to me, that was most helpful is just when things would get crazy to go back to what is foundational to me.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

If you and if you could go back to the the moment or the moments when just in the thick of it, like those moments or days when it's about survival, the hardest of days.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

What would this you tell that you that what you are moving through is a journey, and it's it kind of sounds cliche, but you aren't at your destination, you are not done. Um, I actually have a card over there on the fridge, and I'm gonna walk and grab it. Someone handed this to me. I live like two hours from Waco, so I went to the Magnolia Market and someone handed this to me. It says, with God, there's always so much more to come. And I thought, oh my gosh, how fitting. I feel like this is the end of something, and it is, it was the end, and it was the end because it needed to be. But there was a whole nother chapter. Oh gosh, if I could have glimpsed into I this is where I wanted to be. And I kept saying that in the midst of all that crazy, is I just want to be like two years from now.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Same. I I want to be over this. I want to be done with these feelings and this hurt and this pain and the guilt and all the feelings. Yeah, and I want to just get to the next chapter, yeah. But you can't gift that to someone else, it can't

Legal Strategy, Discovery, And Delays

SPEAKER_03 41:10

fast forward the process.

SPEAKER_04 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

So, how did you maintain or prioritize your health and wellness during the study?

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Well, luckily, I was teaching group fitness. So that was my priority. We're gonna hit an extra hard baby.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Here we go.

SPEAKER_04 41:31

Yeah. But I could see how you could get drowned in I'm gonna put me last. And that happens as just normal human beings, normal moms, wives. One thing that you had asked me about, you know, we originally spoke was like a theme song, and I have like seven, you know. And running it out or being able to work out, and if you're someone who goes to the gym, you usually have a gym community, and being able to talk to those people. And so I was lucky enough to be in a situation where that wasn't hard for me. I didn't have to make the time, the time was made, and I was usually paid to be there, so even better.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

But the physical movement is so huge, it's it's huge, it impacts everything.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Yes, even if you can get outside and walk 20 minutes just to get sunshine, see things a little bit differently, pretty much anybody can do that. And I still do that when stuff gets overwhelming. Yeah, I'm gonna go walk the block.

SPEAKER_03 42:23

A timeout. Yeah, I say that like nothing crystallizes your values more than going through a divorce. What values crystallized for you?

SPEAKER_04 42:39

Um, loyalty, love, which I think I would have said I was really loved by my first husband. Now being married to my husband now, it is a different love. Tell me about that. Gosh, like just being interested in my opinion and respecting my opinion and wanting my opinion, I can be myself and I'm not held to a standard that that person wasn't willing to hold themselves to. And maybe just full acceptance acceptance and uh someone being vulnerable with you. I think there was like a lack of vulnerability coming from my ex-husband. You can't ground your relationship if there's no vulnerability there. And that's just something that I think being older and having now that I didn't I wouldn't have known that that was missing, but it was.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

You mentioned that you just want to fast forward the clock and you just want to be in the new chapter. What did your divorce bring you? What gifts or opportunities?

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Perseverance comes to mind because you have to uh move through things you don't want to do, especially being a single mom. Mom, nobody was mowing my grass, nobody was doing my dishes, nobody was putting out my trash. I had three little kids, my youngest, nine, six, and we had just turned three. So that is a lot. Nobody's carrying your kids in your sleeping babies in from the car. You are. It was like three rounds of carrying in sleepy babies. It it was non-stop. You have to move through things and you just have to do them. And I I don't know that that helps me as much as I can help see with my kids. Like, I know you don't want to do this project, but let's just do it. You don't have an option. And so I feel like that value has really been lightened and kind of surrendering to the fact that we don't control our lives and we don't always get things the way we think they're gonna be given to us. I would always pray for patience before all this because I had little kids, so every day, like give me more patience. Then I became a single mom and I got what I prayed for. So now I'm like really careful to pray for patience. Um

Dating Again And Meeting Her Future Husband

SPEAKER_04 45:06

you do have to be patient in life in general for things to come to you because they come in such a better way than forcing it. If you just let it let it happen. Yeah, in the way of accept and surrender.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

And if you're a person of faith, I think that's part of the deal.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

Yeah, you're taught that, but then like when you live through it, that is like okay, I am done trying to do this my way because I did, and this is where I'm at. So I will just move with you, and you will get me where I am supposed to be, and it'll be the best thing for me possible.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Yeah, I remember just praying sometimes three times a day and just being like, if you put the stone in front of me, I will walk on it. I don't know where the next stone is, I don't know where we're going, but I will walk on it if you present.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Yeah, and also I won't unless you are like, This is your stone. Right. Exactly. Like, I also won't try to think this stone is more secure. Like, I'm gonna go on your stone. Yeah, but then also please close the door, slam the window, caution tape if that's not what we're supposed to do. Yeah, yeah. And I I feel like outsider looking in, because I'm not in Atlanta living with you, seeing you every day, but I also feel like you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Thank you. Because it's hard and yeah. Lemonade from lemons. Yeah, that's right. So, in our final question, what would you like or what do you hope people take away from hearing your story?

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Just knowing that in your worst situation, there's always brighter days ahead. So that was the worst time of my life. You don't have anyone to talk to normally because I was like, all my friends are married. Like it's just hard to have someone even be able to relate to you, so that's really hard. But when you can find someone, even if you don't personally know them, you find them through Instagram or whatever. But if you can kind of look at where they are and know that that's coming for you too, that it will get better because it has to. But you just have to stay grounded in who you are, accepting of who you are, and relinquish control over what my life should look like.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Those shoulds, yeah, those should shoulds come back 360. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. I did not know all of that. You see a little bit on Facebook and you see glimpses of people's stories, but you don't really know people.

SPEAKER_04 47:44

It's scary to put it out there, and social media in general can be a very not safe place to put stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

And you don't want everything out there forever, and you don't know what you're doing. Like what you said, like I was taking it one stone at a time. And how do I even explain what I'm going through in the midst of what I'm going through? Because I don't I don't understand it yet. So now I feel like I'm in a much more healed place to understand why I went through that, and so I'm a more whole person to be able to share what I went through because I think I understand it better. And even

Helping Kids Cope And Keep Consistency

SPEAKER_04 48:20

though, like I said, some days still I'm like, man, I can't believe I did that. It was really stinking hard. But here I am, and I can actually tell a story and not cry about it and not think of it as devastation.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

Yeah, it's just the journey of how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_04 48:35

Yeah. And I would never be the Christian I am if I didn't go through that ever. My faith would never be as tightly bound to Christ if I did not go through that. And I mean, I I'm in a Bible study, and sometimes I'll tell people like, I I sometimes get jealous of who I was because I was clinging so tight to him. When everything is going good, you don't cling as hard. Yeah, no, you'll kind of back off and go to his hand or you know, but I was like clinging to his chest in the midst of it. And so I would say to somebody in the middle of it, as hard as it is, be grateful that you can have that closeness right now, because that in itself is precious in a really hard time to be. I'm not taking a step unless you put a stone there. That doesn't stick with you every day when everything is going great.

SPEAKER_03 49:27

But oh that's such a good exclamation point to end this. So thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, yeah. Thanks for listening to Bitter or Better, where we turn heartbreak into healing and survival into strength. Vulnerability is the last thing we look at, the first thing we look for in the first place. That's what this is all about. Real people are going out, sharing their stories, and finding the rest of the past.